Date: 5/3/25 1:44 pm From: Ken Miracle via groups.io <chukar28...> Subject: Re: [IBLE] Golden Plover ID
Got it … I should have said I was wondering if more photos were needed because I have culled my photos taken 5-1-25 after 6 pm in horrible light with lots of weeds in the way down to 84 with a lot of angles.
I thought the ones from the AM covered what was needed so I processed my photos from a church event after I got home that I needed to get out.
Then I have been birding some more instead of processing the raw images :-)
> On May 3, 2025, at 1:28 PM, Cliff Weisse via groups.io <cliffandlisa...> wrote:
>
> I'm not asking for anything. I just thought there would be interest in the ID criteria.
>
> Cliff
>
> On 5/3/25 01:20PM, Ken Miracle via groups.io wrote:
>> I have seen that comparison of the primaries and tail on several ebird checklists including RLRowlands and others who saw the bird and many better photos than Kent’s that show what you are asking to see so not sure what you are asking for?
>>
>>> On May 3, 2025, at 1:06 PM, Cliff Weisse via groups.io <cliffandlisa...> <mailto:<cliffandlisa...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've looked at more than 20 eBird checklists for the Pacific Golden Plover at Black's Creek. I don't see much mention of the relative length of Primaries/Tertails/Tail that is the only reliable way to separate American and Pacific without calls. It works in any plumage with the only caveat being that it may not work for molting birds.
>>>
>>> Breeding plumage Americans with no white on the flanks are straight forward but during molt they can look like much like Pacifics, and juveniles are very similar. The long bill and long legs can be helpful but a good look at the Primary/Tertial/Tail relationship can make it easy. Here are the important points taken from this article "Morphometric features of Pacific and American Golden-Plovers with comments on field identification" (https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=9bc92b3f984f118928e8f292158d19a586cc53ea): >>> - Pacific has 2-3 primaries visible beyond tertials, American has 4-5
>>> - tertials extend to distal third of tail, ending at or near tail tip in most Pacific, from half to distal third of tail on American
>>> - wing tip extends past end of tail more on American than Pacific, with little or no overlap
>>> - tips of outer two primaries are closer together on Pacific, with some overlap.
>>>
>>> With a good look at the rear end of the bird these differences create a different overall look, even if you can't see the details clearly. Kent's original photo that was posted to IBLE is a good example - it hints at Pacific with tertials appearing to extend nearly to end of tail and very short primary tips visible. You can't quite see the details but there is enough to suggest the need for a closer look. After reviewing the above linked article I did a Google search for photos and these features are clearly visible in countless examples of both species. If you want to get a better handle on Golden Plovers I'd recommend reading the article and spending some time looking at photos.
>>>
>>> Cliff
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cliff and Lisa Weisse
>>> Island Park, Idaho
>>> <cliffandlisa...> <mailto:<cliffandlisa...> >>
>> Ken Miracle
>> <chukar28...> <mailto:<chukar28...> >> 208-570-2780
>> "Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God" 2COR 3:5
>>
> --
> Cliff and Lisa Weisse
> Island Park, Idaho
> <cliffandlisa...> <mailto:<cliffandlisa...> >
Ken Miracle
<chukar28...>
208-570-2780
"Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God" 2COR 3:5
